tv MSNBC Live MSNBC December 22, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm PST
so, call me a hopeless optimist, but i actually still think we can get it done. >> but can they get it done? and if they can't, where do we go from here. as the fiscal cliff looms overall in washington, what happened to the immigration debate we all expected after election day? and leading into this holiday weekend, thousands of flights being delayed, look at the list here as a winter storm hits the midwest, we will tell you what is ahead for the travel plans. we begin with the stalled fiscal cliff debate. president obama and his family are vacationing in hawaii and congress is on holiday recess. both sides are holding out hope that they will be able to reach a deal. >> this is something within our capacity to solve. it does not take this much work. we just have to do the right
thing. >> of course, hope springs eternal and i know we have it in us to come together and do the right thing. >> listen to that, and it seems like they are both positive and feel something can get done. while both sides are away, the away and president in hawaii, can they get something done? >> reporter: well, look, richard, this will be a working vacation for president obama and i can also tell you that staffers on both sides of pennsylvania avenue will be in talks over the next several days despite the fact that they are technically on vacation. will they be able to get manage done that is significant over the next several days? probably not. but of course, lawmakers will head back to d.c. after the christmas holiday and resume negotiations again, and i expect we will see president obama cut his vacation short. there's time to get something done, the president said, look, we are probably not going get a
large deal, he is at this point urgenting members of congress to work together to at least prevent taxes from going up. he had has acknowledged that there's not enough time to get a large sweeping deal done. he said yesterday, members of congress should take the days of vacation to cool offer, and gain perspective and come back ready to work to get something done. will it happen? we will have to wait and see, the clock is ticking on these negotiations. richard? >> joining us now is mark murray, he is the senior political editor. mark, when we look at the after plan-b failed, what are some of the scenarios that you worked out as we look forward to the limited days ahead of us. the first is what was laid out, it's a quick fix that you end up having. it would originate in the senate and it was no surprise that harry reid was meeting yesterday, it would be a
short-term fix to prevent the fiscal cliff. the other is the grand bargain, and time is running out, it's unlikely you will get something like that, however, there's a chance that john boehner and republicans say, mr. president, the last offer that you had on the table, we agree to. and the third option is going over the fiscal cliff and as my colleague has pointed out time and time again, that seems to be the more likely option for everyone, because you end up going over and then that would allow republicans to countenance cutting taxes the way that president wants to do and that seems to be the direction we will be going. >> that third option, juftd going over the cliff, what are you hearing from the white house? is there a sense of confidence that if that were to happen that they would rebound better than republicans? >> reporter: well there's a sense in part, if you look at the polls, the majority of
americans say they would blame republicans if the country were to go over the fiscal cliff. the white house feels they are in a strong position right now, in part because of the president winning re-election, he ran on the platform of increasing taxes on the wealthier americans. there's a sense that if they go over the cliff, the republicans would get the brunt of it. >> did this just get more complex after plan-b failed? if it did get more complex, how will it be handled by the white house and speaker boehner? >> it got more complex for republicans. they passed a one side, quick fix. and they could not get a majority of republicans to support that. the big conclusion being, that democrats, and maybe even a majority of democrats would have to be the ones that pass any
legislation coming from the house. so that weakened republicans leverage in this debate. and that was the biggest reaction from plan-b, and it's why the battleground now moves to the senate and we are not probably going to see negotiations direct negotiations between house speaker john boehner and the white house. we are going to see the thing move to the senate first. >> and final towel, the president after the failure -- finally to you. the president did not seem to have a victory dance. but is there a sense that they have the upper hand now? >> well, i think that the what happened with speaker boehner this week was seen as a blow on the only to his leadership but as mark said to the leverage he has in the negotiations. i think the white house is feeling emboldened by that, but of course their challenge is that they have to get a piece of legislation through the house and the senate. and that remains very murky, how they are going to do that, given
the fact that plan-b was voted down, a plan that would increase taxes only on those making a million dollars or more. so there's the question of getting legislation through both chambers, the goal is to get most democrats to sign on and 20 or 40 republican s in the house. they feel they have the leverage right now, but a question mark over how they are getting legislation through both chambers. >> how do you negotiate with a weakened leader is one of the questions here. mark murray. two very difference backgrounds for both of you, thank you for your time today. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> turning now to the tragedy in newtown as more victims are being laid to rest today, plans are already being drawn up for the next congress to ban assault weapons. joining us now is democratic congressman of kentucky who announced this week, he will co-sponsor such legislation.
representative, thank you for being with us and you said this week, you are willing to lose your seat over your position on gun control. what was your response on to the nra news conference that we saw just yesterday? >> well, richard, i thought it was stunningly insense i hativet is how i felt. the idea that the only approach to gun violence is gun fights is just not the way this country should, i think see itself. i know most americans don't see the wild, wild with west returning to the united states. but that is what they suggested. and the idea that they were making meaningful -- meaningful contributions, the only meaningful contribution i saw was to the gun manufacturers by way of free advertising. you know, they do what they have been doing a long time. that is come up with every excuse, except looking at the incredible saturation of guns in
the society. and i saw statistics today of the 62 mass murders in the united states over the last 30 years, not one of them has been stopped by an armed civilian. and in columbine, there were two armed individuals that tried to stop it and couldn't. so, their answer has never been the answer and it's not the answer now. >> you are one of the few that is willing to make the ultimate political sacrifice in congress for legislation on gun control. how many more need to take that up? to take up that courage that you are representing? >> well, i think this -- this event at newtown was a game changer. and i spoke to many, many members over the last week everyone some republicans who said you know, the president is right. we need to act. and these are people who were strong second amendment
supporters had never felt they could vote for gun restriction at all, but i think are willing to be more flexible, so i think things have changed. >> talk about the conversations that you have had with fellow representatives. you just expressed some of the sentiment, but are you heart ened by this new will? this new political will to make a difference after what we have seen, this tragedy in newtown? >> i'm very, very encouraged by it. and you know, the thing that is important, richard and you have observed some of these in the recent past as well. the momentum can die quickly if the drum beat does not stay loud and that is why i was -- i met with our school superintendent last night. we are going to talk with the teachers' organizations here. we need to make sure that there's this drum beat that keeps the pressure on people and they feel that -- that they have this people behind them. you know, i was thinking this morning, the -- the nra did
everything but ask to be -- to commission the pta and arm them as part of this effort. but the pta is going to be armed and they are going to be armed on the cause of -- for the cause of getting more restrictions on guns and trying to do something about background checks and high capacity magazines and these things that are constructive things we can take. >> have you received money from the nra? >> i have never received money from the nra. >> 51% have. and that has to be difficult when you talk about change here congressman. what can change this -- the way money is being used by lobbyists by the nra, one of the most omnipo temperature emt and powerful lobbying -- omnipotent and lobbying groups in the country? >> you raise an important point, most people think their power is at the ballot box, that is a myth. they do have an incredible force through their contributions,
that will make it tough for some people. on the other hand, you have 85 or so new members coming into the house next year. and while i suspect a fair number of them have gotten money, generally the nra would support incumbents. >> do you think it's the right mix to get something done? >> i think so. and these people come in, they have been sitting at home and listening to their constituents and i am sure they are getting the same information i'm getting and that is you need to do something. >> thank you. >> thank you, richard. >> good guys with guns, bad guys with guns. what is realistic and what is not. our brain trust will be with us to dig into that and right now, president obama has made many promises to one lawmaker in particular who has made immigration his life work. will the president make good? we will talk to congressmtalk t
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the united states deported record numbers of people in 2012, the immigration customs enforcement said to friday that more than 409,000 people that were found to be in the country illegally were removed, many according to i.c.e. were hardened criminals. congressman gutierrez said that many of those deported are heads of american families that are assets to american communities and have committed to crimes.
congressman goo tutierrez has b with us. this has been a consistent number, 409,000, during the president obama administration. what is your reaction to that? >> it's nothing to be proud of, as you said earlier. about 25,000 people are deported who are american citizen children every quarter. there are 5 million american citizen children in the united states whose parents are undo you wanted. there's 100,000 kids, that don't are parents. i understand because i don't care. my heart doesn't bleed for criminals. let's get rid of them, but let's focus our energy and attention to criminals and like tat ththe president said last june. young people that are working, and not committing crimes. they are working here without
documents, that is a mi misdemeanor. >> it just tells us we need to finish our work on immigration reform. >> as we got closer to the election we heard that number was going to go down, there were talks of that. we see the numbers maintained at a pretty high level here. has the president come through in the ways he said he would for immigration reform for latinos? >> i got to tell you, the president has taken some very good steps. last june, he said i will not deport any more young people. and you know what? 400,000 young people have applied for basically deferred action, which means i ask the government not to deport me, to defer any action and we give them a work permit. people remember last august, at
navy pier in chicago where 12,000 young people forward, and many of them have work permits and many more thousands every week. that's a step in the right direction. the problem is last week in chicago, there was a raid looking for a criminal. but they picked up 30 some odd workers at the plant and the very people that i came to my office, one of them was a person who had come to my office, with their children, the children got a work permit and now the government is working to deport their dad. they need their parents. i understand going after criminals, gang bangers, drug dealers people who do harm. but we are damaging so many families. >> you said earlier this month, the president was essentially missing on the issue of immigration reform. what did you mean about that? >> yeah, let me explain that, as we know, we have conversations
and that is why i like live conversations, it's all listened to at the same time. >> tell me. >> they asked, the senate was doing something and i said i would like to see the president do more. i i said missing in action in terms of the legislative process that was going on there. on the other hand, it's very clear to me, and i have -- to me it's very clear that the president is going to take action on this issue. do i want him to take action quicker? would i have liked to see him have less christmas parties and more meetings s talking abouts issue? yes. it's great that eva longoria is out there meeting with the president, but maybe he should gather the immigrant community so we can get a strategy to really start. i know we will get there.
i know in the end we are going to be how would i say it, shoulder to shoulder working on the issue. what i wish, given the numbers. look, 1,000 people get deported every day. that's the study. and it's damaging. >> as you look forward, there was a lot of energy around the issue after the election given the clear momentum. the enthusiasm coming from the latino community, over 70% going for president obama. that's not the only group. but a huge portion of people watching immigration reform. question to you, what can latinos, asian americans for that matter, what can they do together or separately to push the issue forward? the concern here is that the momentum will be lost. >> let me just say to those listening, it is not being lost.
there are conversations every day between republicans and democrats. every day, richard, i can tell you. i can tell you that every time i see one of my colleagues on the house floor, i say can i come by and they say, yes, let's talk. it's very, very difference. there are confessions aversatio people put together principals. it's happening in the senate and the house. would i like to see the white house with greater participation? yes. >> you are not worried about this being brought up in 20 obsce15? >> no, the election results will not tolerate it. if you think that community will say, okay, we will wait another four years i think the congress of the united states and the white house had better not think that that is going to happen. no, look, i think the president has a very clear commitment to this. >> right. >> i think we can do this. i think we can do gun control. i think we can take these issues on. >> and the question is, again, will the latino communities,
will the communities that are interested in immigration reform, will they cop together and not let the fall deaf ears that is the other he'd side of challenge. >> it is the other side of the challenge but one we are ready to meet, richard. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up later, are we on the verge of gun control, first, nut gingrich things he can do a couple things better that amitt romney. and that means running for president. my waist was on. but since i've been on alli, am i on this one? nope. am i on this one? no, no, no, no, no. i am on this one. [ male announcer ] for every 2 pounds you lose through diet and exercise alli can help you lose one more by blocking some of the fat you eat.
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culture that pushed romney as a candidate. he said that he and rick perry would done better running against obama. a new station finds that senator scott brown is in strong position should there be a special election to fill john kerry's seat. the poll found that 58% of voters still have a favorable opinion of scott brown. that is better than other potential candidates. but one name not included in the poll is ted kennedy, doctorjr. he is giving it special thought to run. that means a kennedy could be back in the senate and that would make some very, very happy. up next, polls just closed in eand their nationwide vote on
the constitution, what does that mean for true democracy in the region? [ female announcer ] what does the anti-aging power of olay total effects plus the perfecting color of a bb cream equal? introducing the newest beauty trend. total effects cc cream c for color. c for correction. [ female announcer ] fight 7 signs of aging flawlessly. cc what's possible.
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family. he been serving an 18 month sentence for stealing papal documents. the couple cleared their plans with the queen and they intend to visit with her at some point during the holidays. i see even the royals it's a question of the in-laws. what do you do. and a marine veteran jailed for trying to carry a family shot gun across the border, was freed today. he was met at the border by officials and his family. >> flights are delayed as folks are heading home to grandmas. airports across the country have been very busy.
gabe, some have delays and then they don't, what does it look like now? >> that is exactly right. as you can see behind me, doing well as it has been for a while, but as you mentioned there were problems reported in the northeast. new york's jfk is experiencing delays of more than an hour and a half. and newark is also reporting delays, of about 45 minutes due to wind. we had heard earlier in the day that washington dulles had the same problems but those are clearing up and early this morning. san francisco, had rain delays. and we will be in a much, much situation. more than 1600 flights were cancelled throughout the country. so far, nearly 1 in 4 americans will travel over the next few days. that is up from last year and here in atlant -- in atlanta, p
are thankful, it depends on what part of the country you are in, you should check ahead with the airline, they are experiencing wind delays right now. >> voting has just ended in egypt, people went to the polls today in a second round of voting on a controversial islamic backed constitution. let's get more. >> reporter: good evening, richard, polls are closed here in egypt in the second and final round of a controversial constitution that has polarized. before it closed egypt's vice president announced that he is resigning. it's the latest indication that the country is really facing all kind of political turmoil. now, it's important to stress that the vice president said he did not resign as a result of any political discontent among the leadership of the country.
since the president morsi announced a constitutional declaration, several high ranking advisers have resigned. the vice president's resigning is the latest indication or signal that in fact the country's leadership is somewhat divided over the constitution. it's the country at large that remains polarized, in the first round of voting that took place last saturday, nearly 56% of people voted yes to support the controversial constitution, 44% said no. and it is expected with the results coming in in a hort while from now, that even in the second, the constitution will in fact pass. the constitution has divided the country between islamist political forces and those that oppose them. they say it's important to get the state back on track in 60 days of the election.
many think it's a positive sign. opponents of the constitution say in fact that it takes the country backwards, and does not represent the minorities nor does it protect the rights of women, children and other minority ethnic groups. so it comes in a struggling time here in egypt. >> thank you, for more on what is at stake for the constitution and egypt's future. let's bring in our panelists. she was raised in arab east jerusalem, and let's start with you. he was say iing, some of what t critics are saying, it takes the country backwards. >> it does, especially in this moment, where morsi and the muslim brotherhood are trying to grab powers. one thing to be elected and win
with 51%, it's fine. peep have a chance to vote you out in four years. but the constitution is the base for any future government and legislation, look at the united states for example. for any amendment of the constitution, we have to approve each amendment in the two houses by 2/3 and in addition to that, we have to approve any amendment actually by 3/4 by the states. so it's such an important document. such an important base for any legislation, you need that -- that will unite people. what morsi is doing is dividing the country further and further. for him, it's not about the country, or the future generation, for him it's about the muslim brotherhood. >> if there's this division there according to what we are getting reports on the percentages. there's yet broad support for it. >> if you look at last week's
results, preliminary results it was 57% that proapproved. that is not a wide margin. it's important to understand the background to how morsi became the president. he only got 25% in the first round of presidential elections and narrowly won in the second round against a unpopular candidate but against people who were trying to portray, egyptians voted for him to fulfill the goals of the revolution, when we look at what happened in the votes today t amount of forgery and ballot boxing, exceeding at time when they used to do. >> there were concerns about that. now, in previous years, he had skated on the outside, now he has to deal with the very core of the way the country is operating. that is why we have seen a lot of unrest. as he moves toward the issues of defense. those are the things he did not touch before.
what does that mean in terms of even if this constitution is ratified at some point of course for him, what does it mean for his rule something. >> morsi is clearly failing in doing, in bringing in the political factions, what they like to do is say we are the majority and everyone else is upset because they lost. that is simply a lie. when you see hundreds of egyptians saying weigh your checks and balances, what they are saying is after a revolution, you must take the whole country in consideration, and be the president for the country. not for the muslim brotherhood. he can only restore the country, if they -- you cannot do it as the muslim brotherhood president. that is something you can only do as the president of egypt. >> that is not exactly the platform he worked on. the question is what can the opposition do now? >> the opposition can do a lot.
i admire what they are doing, pressing the women's issues on freedoms and it's such a valuable thing. because morsi thought he could shove down the throat of the people -- he does not have a full grasp of how democracy works. it's about putting people together, listening to the women and listening to the christians and i think we should not leave them alone. the truth is egyptians alone will not stop the muslim brotherhood agency. look, they won on a platform of improving people's lives. people voted for them, not because morsi was more handsome, but today they are equity examining $4 billion from the imf, the international monetary fund and $1.4 billion from the congress. if you add this money, it will change the economy in egypt. what you need to do is give them a set of conditions that actually morsi has to apply for
the way he governs. >> well, part of that money, and we have to go after this, what about women's rights after this? his $4 billion, and the new constitution? >> what concerns me about the most about islamists like morsi will make claims that are baseless. what concerns me about morsi is they wrap themselves around in religion and i'm a muslim and they do not own islam. and what concerns me about this particular constitution is that it was written hurriedly but old ultra conservative men. and women who work with the brotherhood have internalized their own subjugation. >> i appreciate your time. coming up, will armed guards and police officers in schools nationwide become a reality? hey sis,
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and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. >> several funerals were held today for victims of the newtown school shooting. they were both laid to rest in connecticut, emily parker was buried in utah where she lived before moving to newtown. these pictures are from the service. she just turned 7 days before the shooting. today our brain trust tackles the big issue that was on people's mind all week. gun violence and what is to be done so the horrible scenes we just saw out of newtown will never be repeated. i have christopher hahn, and reason magazine and reason.com managing editor, katharine ward. good to see all of you. christopher, we will start with
you. i want to start with what you wrote this week about the second amendment and the nra, i have the article here and what you write is you say, the second amendment, according to what you wrote here has been voided by history and was never in place for any of the reasons the nra or any senator or member of congress has given as a reason for opposing sensible gun regulation since reconstruction. describe what you mean here when you say that second amendment has been voided by history? >> well, look, we don't let people own nuclear war heads or helicopters why would we let them own assault weapons that should be in the hands of the military. when people like jefferson pushed for the second amendment, we lived in a different time, when you controlled the army you controlled the society. today we think of people that want to over throw the government as terrorists now.
i don't understand that it applies. i know the supreme court ruled on this but they are wrong. quite frankly we need sensible gun legislation in america and the second amendment is not there to block it. the second amendment is no longer in effect, we do not let people have military style weapons any more in the country. >> bobby, does it really break it down to. that the times and history has changed and the over throw of the government not a concern. the government bringing their will upon the people, so the guns are needed. is it that argument at this point? >> for some perhaps. but in washington, the argument right now is whether or not you know, whether or not people have this individual right to guns. the president has said that he believes that there's this
constitutional right. he believes in the second amendment, and we will see whether or not this culture war is going to erupt again. >> right. >> and you know, it is going to depend, i think on how powerfully the nra comes out in opposing any kinds of new restrictions on gun ownership. >> so, will this argument resonate? >> i think that the notion that somehow we have to make this into a major constitutional discussion is a little bit misguided. in fact, what happened in newtown was tragic, and it was absolutely worthy of national attention, but that doesn't mean it's worthy of major national legislation, i think we saw the nra and others coming out with a proposal to put a cop in every classroom. and it seems silly, right it seems much, much too extreme and
i would argue that is happening on the other side of the aisle too. -- >> well, you know, you have to -- you know, richard, it's the nra's answer to everything is more guns. any problem america has the nra says, throw more guns at it, and it will away. i agree, we do not need a major constitutional conversation about this. this part of the constitution is no longer applicable to this conversation. >> i'm going ask you all then, what is the solution if it's not legislation or the change in the constitution. what are the baby steps. stay with us, we will take a break and we will continue on the other side of the break. cle? i'm not juice or fancy water. i've got nine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. this reduced sodium soup
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christopher, we were talking with you before the break. today, we have spoken with a representative from one million moms, they are going to put together a march of one million moms in washington, d.c., we spoke with kaseen reid in atlanta, and michael bloomberg coming out and condemning the nra statement that came out on friday. what is the baby step towards a solution here? really, is there the political will to get things done? >> i used to work for chuck schumer and he will be active on this issue. the baby step is to start treating them like automobiles. let's require insurance before you can register and own them. then the market will determine risk. people with higher risk will not be able to get guns and they will not be able to afford guns. if we stop with that. we can move away from big be
round ammunitions. you will get a hard time getting insurance for a weapon that can cause more damage. we could keep it away from the government. let the private sector regulate it on its own. >>. >> the nra proposal that was put out is not far-fetched. a lot of schools have resource officers that provide an extra level of security. but you have to understand that there's 100,000 public schools in the country. do the math. >> 5 billion. >> it's going to be in the billions of dollars if we follow through with a proposal of posting a police officer at every school. >> and it will not work if they have assault weapons. >> whether or not congress is going to have the appetite to spend more money, and these
times of the fiscal cliff. >> if that idea was implemented, we aring looking at 5 billion dollars and katharine, don't they agree on one thing, the president and the right and the left is and that is the issue was brought up yesterday, and that has to do with violence as a part of the culture of the united states and how to combat that, do they agree on that foundation? >> they do, it's a cultural issue and it's not an issue for national legislation and if we want to take baby steps toward improving the safety of children in the country, we would be better off talking about vaccine rates first. >> these assault weapons are good for one thing and bun th-- thing and one thing only and that is killing people.
people who want to own the guns are have serious issues themselves and so they have to be checked out. >> well and good that the original piece of legislation fell to the wayside the question is whether the 113th will have the appetite? >> what are we talking about? >> assault guns and the banning of them. >> sure, that law lapsed in 2004. you know, diane finestein of california has been unable to reenstate that legislation. primarily because of the strong opposition by the nra. you know, the nra has been a very powerful lobby in washington. they have spent, you know, this past elengz cycle spent $18 million to -- on issue ads and a million dollars in direct contributions to political candidates. >> when you start -- 15 seconds to you catherine, will this happen, will this change in this
coming congress? >> if congress is successful in taking care of the fiscal cliff is an indicator i can say no. >> thanks to all of you. >> thanks for having us. >> join us tomorrow from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. eastern. and we will be joined by tennessee republican congresswoman blackburn and congressman cohen. and be sure to catch "meet the press." check the local listings for that time. until then, have a very great saturday afternoon.